The always entertaining to read, yet admittedly unlearned with regards to Sabermetics, Porky had his theoretical Hall of Fame ballot posted on his site recently. I had to take issue with him in the comments, and I spent enough time on it that I decided just to post my take on it all here as well. I hope he doesn’t take it the wrong way because, really, I just wanted to do a post about baseball.
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I have to disagree with your evaluation of Blyleven. While he certainly does not belong in the Hall for his broadcasting skills, he certainly does for his playing. It is totally unfair to measure a pitcher by his win/loss record. Run support factors way too much into the outcome of a game to peg that on a pitcher. Bert only won 20 games once, sure, but let’s take a look at some players who have a better career winning % than Blyleven:
Jimmy Key
Ramon Martinez
Teddy Higuera
Jack McDowell
Kirk Rueter
Paul Assenmacher
Denny Neagle
Dave Burba
Aaron Sele
Well, I am sure that you get the point, I am sure that we can agree that none of those pitchers are better than Blyleven, right?
Next, you cannot discount how many strikeouts he had, 3,701, 5th all time. Granted, he pitched for 22 seasons, but lets take a look at players who have pitched at least that many and where they rank against Bert in K’s:
Tommy John: 2,245
Charlie Hough: 2,362
Jim Kaat: 2,461
Jesse Orosco: 1,179
Phil Niekro: 3,342
Mike Morgan: 1,403
Gaylord Perry: 3,534
Tom Glavine: 2,607
The only players with more career strikeouts than Blyleven are Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, Steve Carlton, and Roger Clemens. I don’t know about you, but that looks like a list of Hall of Famers if I have ever seen one. You know what, for the hell of it, let’s take a look at the ten people behind Blyleven in career K’s:
Tom Seaver, Don Sutton, Gaylord Perry, Walter Johnson, Greg Maddux, Phil Neikro, Fergie Jenkins, Bob Gibson, Pedro Martinez, and Curt Shilling. Taking a gander at that list, every single player is in the Hall already other than Maddux, Pedro, and Shilling. It is of my opinion that each of those three will have a spot in Cooperstown one day, don’t you?
In finishing, take a look at baseball-reference. Look at the ten most comparable players by numbers, of his career. Don Sutton, Gaylord Perry, Fergie Jenkins, Tommy John, Robin Roberts, Tom Seaver, Jim Kaat, Early Wynn, Phil Neikro, and Steve Carlton. Eight of the ten players listed are enshrined in Cooperstown.
My main issue isn’t so much that Bert deserves to be there, though I do believe that he does, as much as it is hypocritical for the voters to leave him out.
Oh, and Andre Dawson, he of the career .323 on base percentage, surpassing Blyleven in voting this year is an absolute crime. I realize that Hall is already a joke, but not inducting Bert is as big of a crime as any.
And for good measure, here is the best argument you are going to find for Tim Raines
and exhale.
Tags: andre dawson, baseball, baseball reference, bert blyleven, best pitchers ever, hall of fame, porky, Tim Raines, ubelmann, WGOM
January 13, 2009 at 7:04 am |
I wholeheartly agree. Blyleven gets nowhere near the respect he deserves. I actually think he’s probably more deserving than Jim Rice is and that’s coming from a Sox fan.
I mean, the guy threw 242 complete games. How many guys since the deadball era have done that? If Sabathia breaks 10 in a season, people start questioning if it’s too much. To do what he did with the beating his arm took, the numbers are even more impressive.
January 13, 2009 at 12:23 pm |
No offense taken. I don’t mind a little friendly debate on this. In fact, in a show of good faith, I will concede this: He does belong in the Baseball Pranksters Hall of Fame. So, there you go.
Beyond that, I’m still not convinced. If you take wins out of the equation (which to me is his strongest argument – 287 wins is a lot of damn wins), then his case rests on the fact that he had a lot of strikeouts. Well, Mark Langston fanned a lot of guys over 16 years, and averaged more than half a K/9 higher than Blyleven, but the only way he gets to Cooperstown is on a bus. Unless you’re Nolan Ryan, I just don’t think K’s matter that much. It’s like saying Biggio deserves a spot in the HOF because he’s fifth all-time in doubles. It’s nice and all, but not much to hang your hat on.
I’ll post a more robust follow-up later on. My personal Mr. Fredenburg’s insistence that I do some of this “work” is really starting to inconvenience me.
January 13, 2009 at 5:59 pm |
Check out the fifth paragraph. That will tell you how much respect the man actually gets. The man should be in. Just look through his baseball-reference page. Who the hell voted for Orosco?
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090112&content_id=3740171&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
January 13, 2009 at 6:23 pm |
I think Nait Rey voted for Jesse Orosco.
January 13, 2009 at 8:33 pm |
[...] the comments of my last post the gentlemen who I am having a discussion regarding the Hall of Fame with, Porky, had this to say [...]
April 15, 2009 at 7:27 am |
The topic is quite hot in the net right now. What do you pay attention to while choosing what to write about?